From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Fri Aug 1 17:30:03 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:30:03 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Short course - Hydrogen Safety References: <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB019AA513@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4893481B.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Casey Joan 31/07/2008 8:30 pm >>> <

> Hello We are in the process of organising a short course at UU which would be of interest to staff and your members/clients. The brochure contains information on the first in a series of international short courses "Progress in Hydrogen Safety". The first topic is "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies: Safety issues". The venue for this first course is Belfast. Dates are 29 September - 3 October 2008. The series of international courses is open to all with an interest in hydrogen and fuel cell technologies and applications and will also be of interest to those people who are keen to source alternative energy to help their business. As discussed, can you forward the invitation to your client companies here and UK. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions. Many thanks and best regards, Joan Joan Casey Business Manager - Hydrogen Safety Hydrogen Safety Engineering and Research (Block 27) University of Ulster Newtownabbey BT37 0QB Northern Ireland, UK T: +44(0)2890366407 F: +44(0)2890368726 W: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080801/442b73ff/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: H2 Safety Course 2008 September UU-1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 347226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080801/442b73ff/attachment-0001.pdf From g.rein at ed.ac.uk Tue Aug 5 09:51:48 2008 From: g.rein at ed.ac.uk (Guillermo Rein) Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 00:51:48 +0100 Subject: IAFSS> The Dalmarnock Fire Tests book (and FireSeat 2008) In-Reply-To: <47681FD5.5080107@ed.ac.uk> References: <47681FD5.5080107@ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <48979614.1090307@ed.ac.uk> Dear IAFSS & SFPE, http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2037 We have just put in the link above the 11 chapters of the book 'The Dalmarnock Fire Tests: Experiments and Modelling' (free access repository). The table of contents and individual chapter links are attached below. Also, now that I got you reading this, let me briefly announce the 2008 FireSeat, "Fire and Building Safety in the Single European Market, Does CE Compliance Ensure Fire Safety?" and the first Philip Thomas Lecture, 12th November 2008, Edinburgh. More information at: http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/FIRESEAT/2008.html A more elaborate announcement soon to follow. Hope to see you there. Cheers G. ---------- The Dalmarnock Fire Tests: Experiments and Modelling, Edited by G. Rein, C. Abecassis Empis and R. Carvel, Published by the School of Engineering and Electronics, University of Edinburgh, 2007. ISBN 978-0-9557497-0-4 http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/FIRESEAT/publications.html#DFT ToC: Preface: The Dalmarnock Fire Tests http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2410 Chp 1. Introduction to FireGrid http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2413 Chp 2. Experimental Layout and Description of the Building http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2412 Chp 3. Test One: The ?Uncontrolled? Fire http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2411 Chp 4. Test Two: The ?Controlled Fire? http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2409 Chp 5 .Smoke Detection, CCTV and Remote Monitoring Systems http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2414 Chp 6. Laboratory Experiments and their Applicability http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2415 Chp 7. Heat Transfer to the Structure during the Fire http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2408 Chp 8. Behaviour of the Structure during the Fire http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2407 Chp 9. Performance of Fibre Reinforced Polymer Strengthening in the Fire http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2406 Chp 10. A Priori Modelling of Fire Test One http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2405 Chp 11. Posteriori Modelling of Fire Test One http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2404 --------- Guillermo Rein wrote: > Dear all, > > For those of you interested in The Dalmarnock Fire Tests and could not > attend the Symposium last Nov, the presentations have been uploaded here: > http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/FIRESEAT/2007.html > > Copies of the book 'The Dalmarnock Fire Tests: Experiments and > Modelling' can be ordered online at this two sites: > > http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/FIRESEAT/publications.html > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dalmarnock-Fire-Tests-Experiments-Modelling/dp/0955749700/ > - please choose to buy from the marketplace seller (i.e. us) rather than > direct from Amazon. > > Cheers > G. > > PD: Preview of the book can be found here: > http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/FIRESEAT/DFT_Book_Preview.pdf > -- BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering The University of Edinburgh, UK http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~grein +44 (0) 131 650 7214 - Fire and Building Safety in the Single European Market Does CE Compliance Ensure Fire Safety? www.fireseat.org one-day Symposium, Nov 2008. -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Wed Aug 6 23:25:29 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:25:29 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Senior Fire Protection Engineer Position References: <487A20AC.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> <8CAC5A29A82749E-440-302E@Webmail-mg04.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <489A32E9.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> -----Original Message----- From: amaltamim at aim.com To: sfpe at newcastle.edu.au; iafss at newcastle.edu.au Sent: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:33 am Subject: Senior Fire Protection Engineer Position Carreer Opportunity with COWI - www.cowi.com COWI, a multi-disciplinary engineering and consulting firm with offices in 35 countries and more than 4000 Employees around the world is looking for Senior Fire Protection Engineer to take a technical leadership role for the Gulf region. If you are interested in making a career move and want to be involved in key projects throughout the gulf region, please contact us. The candidate must have a B.Sc. or M.Sc. in FPE or FSE. More than 10 years experience and PE registration essential. Market competitive salary offered with relocation and full benefits package. Contact Person: Amal Tamim Section Manager - Fire COWI Gulf amta at cowi.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080806/199b5b7a/attachment.html From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Wed Aug 13 03:18:24 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 03:18:24 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Master thesis: greenhouse gas emission as a decision criterion for fire protection planning in buildings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A2527F.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> Hello! We are two Master students in Risk Management and safety Engineering at Lund University. One of us also has a BSc in Fire Protection Engineering. We are writing our thesis on how to include environmental aspects in fire protection design of buildings. We are cooperating with WSP and the Swedish National Board of Housing, Building and Planning. Have anyone conducted LCA: s of fire protection solutions and where can we find the results? Are there any articles on the subject fire protection and environmental cost? We are only interested in studies with a "no fire" starting-point, meaning that the environmental cost (emission of greenhouse gases) is caused by production and installation of the fire protection solution, not by fire. Have anyone tried to connect fire protection and environment in this way before? Kind Regards Stefan Falemo stefan.falemo at gmail.com Jonas Davidsson jonas.davidsson at gmail.com Here is a brief description of our ideas, we have just started and are thankful for all comments. Our goal is to develop a method for comparing different fire protection solutions with respect to emission of greenhouse gases and try to interpret the result into a decision criterion for fire protection planning. Can Life Cycle Assessment be used to compare greenhouse gas emissions for different fire? Protection solutions? How can the LCA result be interpreted for the following two cases: A: Two alternative fire protection solutions with the same safety level. Comparison of environmental and economic costs. B: Alternatives with different safety levels. No regard to economic differences. Comparison of safety level and environmental cost. There are two different ways to look at this problem: to study the life cycle of a building that catches fire, or one that doesn't. We choose to concentrate on the latter, which means that the environmental impact is limited to the life cycle of the products constituting the fire protection solution. The project's focus is on emission of greenhouse gases and does not include other negative environmental effects (such as acidification). The connection between greenhouse gases and global warming is not discussed. From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Thu Aug 14 04:13:34 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:13:34 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> 2nd announcement: short course "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies - Safety issues" (29.09-03.10.2008, Belfast) In-Reply-To: <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D958A@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> References: <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB01AA10DB@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D955F@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D9562@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D9566@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D956D@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D9575@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D9577@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D9583@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D9587@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB7D958A@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <48A3B0EE.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Casey Joan 13/08/2008 10:44 pm >>> Dear Colleagues, Please find below the 2nd announcement of the short course "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies - Safety issues". The leaflet with a technical programme and registration information is attached for your convenience. Second announcement International Short Course Series "Progress in Hydrogen Safety" Short course: "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies - Safety issues" 29th September to 3rd October 2008, Belfast This is an exciting new series of industrially oriented short courses organised by the HySAFER centre at the University of Ulster in collaboration with international partners. The first short course will be delivered by experts from Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the UK. The series of International courses is aimed at those with an interest in safe use of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies and infrastructures. It will also be of interest to those people who are keen to source alternative energy to help their business. Don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions at h2safety at ulster.ac.uk . We look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Joan Joan Casey Business Manager - Hydrogen Safety Hydrogen Safety Engineering and Research Centre (Block 27) University of Ulster Newtownabbey BT37 0QB Northern Ireland, UK T: +44(0)2890366407 F: +44(0)2890368726 E: J.Casey at ulster.ac.uk W: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/ PGC in Hydrogen Safety Engineering: http://campusone.ulster.ac.uk/potential/postgraduate.php?cid=C514PJ Projects websites: HySafe: www.hysafe.net HYPER: www.hyperproject.eu/ HyCourse: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/esshs/hycourse/index.php HySAFEST: see at www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/projects.php?mfm=detail&id=6 From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Fri Aug 15 07:26:09 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:26:09 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> European Network of Excellence HySafe: PgCert/PgDip/MSc in Hydrogen Safety Engineering; International Short Course Series Progress in Hydrogen Safety In-Reply-To: <200808141849.m7EInAFT004226@m0.ulster.ac.uk> References: <200808141849.m7EInAFT004226@m0.ulster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <48A52F91.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Arief Dahoe 15/08/2008 3:26 am >>> Dear Colleagues, The University of Ulster would like to inform you that the starting date of the third enrolment onto World's First Postgraduate Course in Hydrogen Safety Engineering is on 22 September 2008. Registration with the course can be done on-line via the prospectus at: http://campusone.ulster.ac.uk/potential/postgraduate.php?cid=C514PJby pressing the "Apply Now" button. More information about the course is also available at http://www.hysafe.org/MScHSEand further details may be requested from: MSc-HSE at ulster.ac.uk. >From 29 September to 3 October 2008 there will be a short course in hydrogen safety titled 'Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technologies: Safety Issues' (see: http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/esshs/docs/ProgressInHydrogenSafetySeptember2008. pdf). It is the first episode in the International Short Course Series 'Progress in Hydrogen Safety'. Those attending this short course will gather 20 CATS points for the PgCert/PgDipD/MSc in Hydrogen Safety Engineering. Yours faithfully, Arief Dahoe Dr A.E. Dahoe Lecturer in Hydrogen Safety Course Director Postgraduate Course in Hydrogen Safety Engineering Hydrogen Safety Engineering and Research (Block 27) Faculty of Art, Design and the Built Environment University of Ulster BT37 0QB, Newtownabbey, Co. Antrim Northern Ireland, United Kingdom T: +44 (0)28 9036 8763 F: +44 (0)28 9036 8726 E: ae.dahoe at ulster.ac.uk W: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/ PgCert/PgDip/MSc in Hydrogen Safety Engineering: http://campusone.ulster.ac.uk/potential/postgraduate.php?cid=C514PJ Project websites: HySafe: www.hysafe.org ( http://www.hysafe.org/ ) HYPER: www.hyperproject.eu ( http://www.hyperproject.eu/ ) HyCourse: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/esshs/ HySAFEST: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/projects.php?mfm=detail &id=6 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080815/504a4974/attachment-0001.html From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Wed Aug 20 19:07:05 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:07:05 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Re: Master thesis: greenhouse gas emission as a decision criterion for fire protection planning in buildings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48AC6B59.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> 19/08/2008 4:10 pm >>> Hi Stefan and Jonas, A recent conference here in Australia focussed on sustainability. Fire Australia 2007 http://www.fpaa.com.au/events/docs/Fire%20Australia%202007.pdf A paper written by myself, fire engineers colleagues and the CSIRO LCA design group titled "Can Alternative Solutions for fire safety have greenhouse gas reduction benefits?" s available at: http://www.fpaa.com.au/events/?events=past See below for the Abstract. Regards, Alex Alex Webb Fire Safety Engineer CSIRO Materials Science and Engineering (CMSE) 37 Graham Road (PO Box 56), Highett, VIC 3190 Ph: +61-3-9252 6431 Fax: +61-3-9252 6011 Web: www.csiro.au/cmse Fire Engineer Registration Numbers Victoria: EF 21084, NSW: BPB0435, QLD RPEQ (Civil) 8040 ----------- Abstract -------------- Can Alternative Solutions for fire safety have greenhouse gas reduction benefits? A. Webb1, M. Ambrose2, I. Thomas3, N. White1, S. Tucker2 1 CSIRO Manufacturing and Materials Technology, VIC; 2 CSIRO Sustainable Ecosystems, 3 Victoria University Abstract Alternative solutions for fire safety are applied to buildings for a wide range of reasons, however, given the increasing importance of the triple bottom line, can there be an environmental advantage as well? Life Cycle Analysis (LCA) analyses the total environmental impact of all materials and energy flows, either as input or output, over the life of a product/building from raw material to end-of-life disposal or rebirth. (This is not to be confused with life cycle costing, or LCC, which considers only monetary cost.) One element of LCA that is an increasing area of public concern is global warming and greenhouse gas production. Choosing fire safety systems that have a smaller CO2 footprint whilst still achieving the regulatory goals, would contribute to the global need to reduce human impact on the environment. To assess the whole of life impact of a building, the material production, building construction, systems installation, ongoing operation, maintenance and final recycling or demolition are included in any assessment. Using LCA, the impact of an alternative solution applied to the fire safety of a building is simply evaluated to compare the CO2 production, the principle greenhouse gas. The issue of active versus passive, sprinklers versus fire rating is the basis of a case study used to broadly outline the principles. A risk based approach is used to assess the life safety implications of the trade off between fire safety systems included as part of the fire safety alternative solution. The implications of CO2 production during a fire event is also added into the LCA analysis. -----Original Message----- From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Bogdan Dlugogorski Sent: Wednesday, 13 August 2008 3:18 AM To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au Subject: IAFSS> Master thesis: greenhouse gas emission as a decision criterion for fire protection planning in buildings Hello! We are two Master students in Risk Management and safety Engineering at Lund University. One of us also has a BSc in Fire Protection Engineering. We are writing our thesis on how to include environmental aspects in fire protection design of buildings. We are cooperating with WSP and the Swedish National Board of Housing, Building and Planning. Have anyone conducted LCA: s of fire protection solutions and where can we find the results? Are there any articles on the subject fire protection and environmental cost? We are only interested in studies with a "no fire" starting-point, meaning that the environmental cost (emission of greenhouse gases) is caused by production and installation of the fire protection solution, not by fire. Have anyone tried to connect fire protection and environment in this way before? Kind Regards Stefan Falemo stefan.falemo at gmail.com Jonas Davidsson jonas.davidsson at gmail.com Here is a brief description of our ideas, we have just started and are thankful for all comments. Our goal is to develop a method for comparing different fire protection solutions with respect to emission of greenhouse gases and try to interpret the result into a decision criterion for fire protection planning. Can Life Cycle Assessment be used to compare greenhouse gas emissions for different fire? Protection solutions? How can the LCA result be interpreted for the following two cases: A: Two alternative fire protection solutions with the same safety level. Comparison of environmental and economic costs. B: Alternatives with different safety levels. No regard to economic differences. Comparison of safety level and environmental cost. There are two different ways to look at this problem: to study the life cycle of a building that catches fire, or one that doesn't. We choose to concentrate on the latter, which means that the environmental impact is limited to the life cycle of the products constituting the fire protection solution. The project's focus is on emission of greenhouse gases and does not include other negative environmental effects (such as acidification). The connection between greenhouse gases and global warming is not discussed. Iafss mailing list Iafss at newcastle.edu.au http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS Discussion Forum) or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. From solenick at csefire.com Sat Aug 23 03:24:50 2008 From: solenick at csefire.com (Stephen M. Olenick) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:24:50 -0400 Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey Message-ID: <48AEF662.8070108@csefire.com> Fire Modelers- If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to provide a database of fire model information including references, contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A few years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, Stephen Olenick. -- Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. Senior Engineer Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. Columbia, MD 21045 410-884-3266 phone 410-884-3267 fax solenick at csefire.com www.csefire.com From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Sat Aug 23 18:36:23 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:36:23 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Fire modelling software Message-ID: <48B058A7.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Peter Barrett 23/08/2008 5:49 pm >>> Hello everyone. I have been looking into purchasing some fire modelling software to simulate fire environments for performance based design (rational design) the package should strongly feature evacuation tools, fluid dynamics of smoke and detector and sprinkler response times. I would be most grateful for opinions on what is the most used package in the UK and the rest of the EC currently? Kind regards Peter Barrett pbarrett at intecsol.co.za From deytec at frontiernet.net Wed Aug 27 00:34:16 2008 From: deytec at frontiernet.net (Dr. Monideep K. Dey) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:34:16 -0400 Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey In-Reply-To: <48AEF662.8070108@csefire.com> Message-ID: <20080826143418.36F0D1A006C@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Mr. Olenick: I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like to propose to the fire science community that a task and an international standard be developed that would outline the procedure for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that such a standard mandate that fire model validation data be developed by a third independent party, because my observation is that model developers, owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true limitations and errors of fire models. I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an effort is established by the fire science community. Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to discuss my proposal further. Monideep K. Dey, PhD Deytec, Inc. HC-64 Box 100-27 Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 USA Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 Fax: 1-304-874-4497 deytec at frontiernet.net -----Original Message----- From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Olenick Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey Fire Modelers- If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to provide a database of fire model information including references, contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A few years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, Stephen Olenick. -- Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. Senior Engineer Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. Columbia, MD 21045 410-884-3266 phone 410-884-3267 fax solenick at csefire.com www.csefire.com Iafss mailing list Iafss at newcastle.edu.au http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS Discussion Forum) or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080826/4c5f786b/attachment-0001.html From deytec at frontiernet.net Wed Aug 27 00:37:11 2008 From: deytec at frontiernet.net (Dr. Monideep K. Dey) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:37:11 -0400 Subject: IAFSS> FW: Updated Fire Model Survey Message-ID: <20080826143712.B27EF19F8F5@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> From: Stephen M. Olenick [mailto:solenick at csefire.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 AM To: Dr. Monideep K. Dey Subject: Re: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey You are probably right that that needs to be done. Currently, the SFPE has a task group that I participate on that follows the ASTM standard (E1355 I think) on model evaluation. You should consider contacting SFPE and joining the task group. We put out a report every few years on a new model, although with the number of models, it is a daunting task. In terms of the model survey website meshing with your idea, the goal of the model survey is for the developer to fill out a survey. So your concern about developers and owners not being sincere about the limitations may be valid. We do put a topic in the survey on validation references and allow the developer to fill that out, but there likely are times where unfavorable ones or ones conducted by outsiders are not included. Unfortunately, this is a shortcoming of the model survey as the goal is not for the information on the website to be a compilation of my thoughts on each model, but instead a compilation of the developers posted information on their models. Take care, Stephen. Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. Senior Engineer Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. Columbia, MD 21045 410-884-3266 phone 410-884-3267 fax solenick at csefire.com www.csefire.com Dr. Monideep K. Dey wrote: > > Mr. Olenick: > > > > I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like > to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, > i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the > predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used > widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety > analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of > the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like > to propose to the fire science community that a task and an > international standard be developed that would outline the procedure > for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that > such a standard mandate _that fire model validation data be developed > by a third party_, because my observation is that model developers, > owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true > limitations and errors of fire models. > > > > I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an > effort is established by the fire science community. > > > > Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to > discuss my proposal further. > > > > Monideep K. Dey, PhD > > > > Deytec, Inc. > > HC-64 Box 100-27 > > Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 > > USA > > > > Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 > > Fax: 1-304-874-4497 > > deytec at frontiernet.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au > [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Olenick > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM > To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au > Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey > > > > Fire Modelers- > > > > If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to > > provide a database of fire model information including references, > > contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A few > > years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we > > allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the > > models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the > > last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the > > opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While > > participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the > > initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the > > new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. > > > > Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, > > > > Stephen Olenick. > > > > -- > > Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. > > Senior Engineer > > Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. > > 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. > > Columbia, MD 21045 > > 410-884-3266 phone > > 410-884-3267 fax > > solenick at csefire.com > > www.csefire.com > > > > Iafss mailing list > > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > > > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR > STUDENTS. CONTACT > > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS > Discussion Forum) > > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > > From M.Delichatsios at ulster.ac.uk Wed Aug 27 17:03:33 2008 From: M.Delichatsios at ulster.ac.uk (Delichatsios Michael) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:03:33 +0100 Subject: IAFSS> FW: Updated Fire Model Survey In-Reply-To: <20080826143712.B27EF19F8F5@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <20080826143712.B27EF19F8F5@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <1355BC3CA21393439D43B1FE3FDC0A24AF15E4@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> Just some common sense remarks. Working in fire science and technology for many years and from the vantage point of physics of fire and model application, I would make some trivial comments: 1. all models have limitations and these must be clearly stated by eth modelers and understood by the users. 2. there are many " good models" to predict the dispersion of gaseous product if the fie size and product yields are known. 3. the difficult is to predict the combustion and interaction with the fuel pyrolysis including smoke , radiation, soot and toxic gases. No reliable and credible models exist for these cases useful for the users. Moreover, there is no driving force for the general combustion community to develop such models. I would like also to mention that there is a working group in ISOTC92 dealing with model application and validation. Best regards Michael Michael A. Delichatsios, Professor Director of FireSERT Chair and Head of Fire Dynamics and Materials Lab (FML) University of Ulster Tel: +44 (0) 28 9036 8058 Fax:+44 (0) 28 9036 8726 http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/predfire http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/mffdrg/ http://www.firesert.ulster.ac.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Dr. Monideep K. Dey Sent: 26 August 2008 15:37 To: IAFSS Subject: IAFSS> FW: Updated Fire Model Survey From: Stephen M. Olenick [mailto:solenick at csefire.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 AM To: Dr. Monideep K. Dey Subject: Re: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey You are probably right that that needs to be done. Currently, the SFPE has a task group that I participate on that follows the ASTM standard (E1355 I think) on model evaluation. You should consider contacting SFPE and joining the task group. We put out a report every few years on a new model, although with the number of models, it is a daunting task. In terms of the model survey website meshing with your idea, the goal of the model survey is for the developer to fill out a survey. So your concern about developers and owners not being sincere about the limitations may be valid. We do put a topic in the survey on validation references and allow the developer to fill that out, but there likely are times where unfavorable ones or ones conducted by outsiders are not included. Unfortunately, this is a shortcoming of the model survey as the goal is not for the information on the website to be a compilation of my thoughts on each model, but instead a compilation of the developers posted information on their models. Take care, Stephen. Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. Senior Engineer Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. Columbia, MD 21045 410-884-3266 phone 410-884-3267 fax solenick at csefire.com www.csefire.com Dr. Monideep K. Dey wrote: > > Mr. Olenick: > > > > I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like > to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, > i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the > predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used > widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety > analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of > the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like > to propose to the fire science community that a task and an > international standard be developed that would outline the procedure > for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that > such a standard mandate _that fire model validation data be developed > by a third party_, because my observation is that model developers, > owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true > limitations and errors of fire models. > > > > I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an > effort is established by the fire science community. > > > > Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to > discuss my proposal further. > > > > Monideep K. Dey, PhD > > > > Deytec, Inc. > > HC-64 Box 100-27 > > Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 > > USA > > > > Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 > > Fax: 1-304-874-4497 > > deytec at frontiernet.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au > [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. > Olenick > Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM > To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au > Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey > > > > Fire Modelers- > > > > If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to > > provide a database of fire model information including references, > > contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A > few > > years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we > > allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the > > models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the > > last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the > > opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While > > participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the > > initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the > > new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. > > > > Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, > > > > Stephen Olenick. > > > > -- > > Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. > > Senior Engineer > > Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. > > 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. > > Columbia, MD 21045 > > 410-884-3266 phone > > 410-884-3267 fax > > solenick at csefire.com > > www.csefire.com > > > > Iafss mailing list > > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > > > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR > STUDENTS. CONTACT > > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS > Discussion Forum) > > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > > Iafss mailing list Iafss at newcastle.edu.au http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS Discussion Forum) or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. From G.Rein at ed.ac.uk Wed Aug 27 22:55:51 2008 From: G.Rein at ed.ac.uk (Guillermo Rein) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:55:51 +0100 Subject: IAFSS> FW: Updated Fire Model Survey In-Reply-To: <1355BC3CA21393439D43B1FE3FDC0A24AF15E4@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> References: <20080826143712.B27EF19F8F5@relay03.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> <1355BC3CA21393439D43B1FE3FDC0A24AF15E4@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <48B54ED7.3090007@ed.ac.uk> This is a very interesting and long-due discussion in the community. I largely agree with Michael's point 3; which means that there is a lot of work and convincing to do in the research arena for fire modelling. The comment of Dr Dey that "fire model validation data be developed by a third party, because my observation is that model developers, owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true limitations and errors" is related to the lack of blind fire validations. A blind or 'a priori' validation is when the modelling is conducted before seeing the experimental results. This is important because the biassed introduced into the validation by having the modeller accessed the experimental data before hand could be large and is rarely explored in fire modelling. In this direction, CIB organized and conducted a large and international blind round-robin for fire models (circa 1999) but the results were not made publicly available. My research group at Edinburgh conducted an round-robin using the 2006 Dalmarnock Fire Tests (the results are published here http://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2405). And more recently, in 2008, new blind modelling round-robins are being organized by Prof Coppalle in Coria Universit? de Rouen (some preliminary results will be presented as a poster at the 9th IAFSS, I think). All the results point towards the same direction; that blind validations provide very different results that open validations. The question of how to address the results from blind validations remains unanswered, and I think it should be an important issue for the fire community. Cheers G. Delichatsios Michael wrote: > Just some common sense remarks. > > Working in fire science and technology for many years and from the > vantage point of physics of fire and model application, I would make > some trivial comments: > > 1. all models have limitations and these must be clearly stated by eth > modelers and understood by the users. > 2. there are many " good models" to predict the dispersion of gaseous > product if the fie size and product yields are known. > 3. the difficult is to predict the combustion and interaction with the > fuel pyrolysis including smoke , radiation, soot and toxic gases. No > reliable and credible models exist for these cases useful for the users. > Moreover, there is no driving force for the general combustion community > to develop such models. > > I would like also to mention that there is a working group in ISOTC92 > dealing with model application and validation. > > Best regards > > Michael > > > Michael A. Delichatsios, Professor > Director of FireSERT > Chair and Head of Fire Dynamics and Materials Lab (FML) > University of Ulster > Tel: +44 (0) 28 9036 8058 > Fax:+44 (0) 28 9036 8726 > http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/predfire > http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/mffdrg/ > http://www.firesert.ulster.ac.uk/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au > [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Dr. Monideep K. Dey > Sent: 26 August 2008 15:37 > To: IAFSS > Subject: IAFSS> FW: Updated Fire Model Survey > > From: Stephen M. Olenick [mailto:solenick at csefire.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 AM > To: Dr. Monideep K. Dey > Subject: Re: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey > > You are probably right that that needs to be done. Currently, the SFPE > has a task group that I participate on that follows the ASTM standard > (E1355 I think) on model evaluation. You should consider contacting > SFPE and joining the task group. We put out a report every few years on > a new model, although with the number of models, it is a daunting task. > > In terms of the model survey website meshing with your idea, the goal of > the model survey is for the developer to fill out a survey. So your > concern about developers and owners not being sincere about the > limitations may be valid. We do put a topic in the survey on validation > references and allow the developer to fill that out, but there likely > are times where unfavorable ones or ones conducted by outsiders are not > included. Unfortunately, this is a shortcoming of the model survey as > the goal is not for the information on the website to be a compilation > of my thoughts on each model, but instead a compilation of the > developers posted information on their models. > > Take care, > > Stephen. > > Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. > Senior Engineer > Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. > 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. > Columbia, MD 21045 > 410-884-3266 phone > 410-884-3267 fax > solenick at csefire.com > www.csefire.com > > > > Dr. Monideep K. Dey wrote: >> Mr. Olenick: >> >> >> >> I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like >> to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, > >> i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the >> predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used > >> widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety >> analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of >> the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like >> to propose to the fire science community that a task and an >> international standard be developed that would outline the procedure >> for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that >> such a standard mandate _that fire model validation data be developed >> by a third party_, because my observation is that model developers, >> owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true >> limitations and errors of fire models. >> >> >> >> I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an >> effort is established by the fire science community. >> >> >> >> Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to > >> discuss my proposal further. >> >> >> >> Monideep K. Dey, PhD >> >> >> >> Deytec, Inc. >> >> HC-64 Box 100-27 >> >> Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 >> >> USA >> >> >> >> Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 >> >> Fax: 1-304-874-4497 >> >> deytec at frontiernet.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au >> [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. >> Olenick >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM >> To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey >> >> >> >> Fire Modelers- >> >> >> >> If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to >> >> provide a database of fire model information including references, >> >> contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A >> few >> >> years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we >> >> allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the >> >> models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the >> >> last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the >> >> opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While >> >> participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the >> >> initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the >> >> new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. >> >> >> >> Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Stephen Olenick. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. >> >> Senior Engineer >> >> Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. >> >> 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. >> >> Columbia, MD 21045 >> >> 410-884-3266 phone >> >> 410-884-3267 fax >> >> solenick at csefire.com >> >> www.csefire.com >> >> >> >> Iafss mailing list >> >> Iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss >> >> >> >> THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL >> >> ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS >> >> TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, >> >> PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND >> >> ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE >> >> SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP >> >> FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR >> STUDENTS. CONTACT >> >> iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily >> >> those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or >> >> the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS >> Discussion Forum) >> >> or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE >> >> Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. >> >> >> > > Iafss mailing list > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR > FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, > PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A > DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF > BENEFIT TO THE FIRE SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL > MEMBERSHIP FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 > FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP > SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily those > of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or the > Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS > Discussion Forum) or > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > > > Iafss mailing list > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS Discussion Forum) > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > -- BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering The University of Edinburgh, UK http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~grein +44 (0) 131 650 7214 - Fire and Building Safety in the Single European Market, 12 Nov 08, http://www.fireseat.org Mathematical Problems in Fire Safety Engineering Workshop, 31 Oct 08, http://www.icms.org.uk/workshops/fire -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Thu Aug 28 06:07:33 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:07:33 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Re: Updated Fire Model Survey References: <48B4EAD8.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> <48B545C4.2070008@firelaw.us> Message-ID: <48B640A5.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Vince Brannigan 27/08/2008 10:17 pm >>> My approach is the same as that used in Medicine. Medical ethics prohibits the use of "secret remedies" or Secret surgical techniques. No journal would publish research on, or national regulatory agency approve, a drug without a full disclosure of the ingredients. No Physician would prescribe a drug without such disclosure The FDA quality control requirements for medical software and models are very complex, and require expert documented and non developer validation and verification. I am simply astonished that any reputable builder or regulator would accept any results produced by a model that had not been fully vetted by third party review. Abolishing the "patent medicine" era of secret remedies was critical to the advancement of Medicine as a profession instead of appearing to be a bunch of self promoting quacks. Perhaps as Fire Engineering matures into a real profession it will see the same advantage in making sure that models are valid and able to be shown to be valid.. Certainly the liability exposure alone should make any private party wince at the use of such models. Both Validation and verification are critical steps. As the FDA uses the terms: 3.1.2 Verification and Validation The Quality System regulation is harmonized with /ISO 8402/:1994, which treats "verification" and "validation" as separate and distinct terms. On the other hand, many software engineering journal articles and textbooks use the terms "verification" and "validation" interchangeably, or in some cases refer to software "verification, validation, and testing (VV&T)" as if it is a single concept, with no distinction among the three terms. Software verification provides objective evidence that the design outputs of a particular phase of the software development life cycle meet all of the specified requirements for that phase. Software verification looks for consistency, completeness, and correctness of the software and its supporting documentation, as it is being developed, and provides support for a subsequent conclusion that software is validated. Software testing is one of many verification activities intended to confirm that software development output meets its input requirements. Other verification activities include various static and dynamic analyses, code and document inspections, walkthroughs, and other techniques. Software validation is a part of the design validation for a finished device, but is not separately defined in the Quality System regulation. For purposes of this guidance, FDA considers software validation to be "confirmation by examination and provision of objective evidence that software specifications conform to user needs and intended uses, and that the particular requirements implemented through software can be consistently fulfilled." http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/comp/guidance/938.html In simple terms verification is whether the computer coding is right and validation is whether it means anything in the real world. Both have to be demonstrated. The recent WTC 7 report highlights the failure of the profession and industry in validating the test methods routinely referenced by the models. There are no "trade secrets" in validation. Vincent Brannigan J.D. Prof. Emeritus Department of Fire Protection Engineering U of Maryland College Park Bogdan Dlugogorski wrote: >>>> "Dr. Monideep K. Dey" 27/08/2008 12:37 am >>> >>>> > From: Stephen M. Olenick [mailto:solenick at csefire.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 AM > To: Dr. Monideep K. Dey > Subject: Re: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey > > You are probably right that that needs to be done. Currently, the SFPE > has a task group that I participate on that follows the ASTM standard > (E1355 I think) on model evaluation. You should consider contacting > SFPE and joining the task group. We put out a report every few years on > a new model, although with the number of models, it is a daunting task. > In terms of the model survey website meshing with your idea, the goal of > the model survey is for the developer to fill out a survey. So your > concern about developers and owners not being sincere about the > limitations may be valid. We do put a topic in the survey on validation > references and allow the developer to fill that out, but there likely > are times where unfavorable ones or ones conducted by outsiders are not > included. Unfortunately, this is a shortcoming of the model survey as > the goal is not for the information on the website to be a compilation > of my thoughts on each model, but instead a compilation of the > developers posted information on their models. > > Take care, > > Stephen. > > Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. > Senior Engineer > Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. > 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. > Columbia, MD 21045 > 410-884-3266 phone > 410-884-3267 fax > solenick at csefire.com > www.csefire.com > > > > Dr. Monideep K. Dey wrote: > >> Mr. Olenick: >> >> >> >> I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like >> to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, >> i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the >> predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used >> widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety >> analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of >> the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like >> to propose to the fire science community that a task and an >> international standard be developed that would outline the procedure >> for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that >> such a standard mandate _that fire model validation data be developed >> by a third party_, because my observation is that model developers, >> owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true >> limitations and errors of fire models. >> >> >> >> I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an >> effort is established by the fire science community. >> >> >> >> Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to >> discuss my proposal further. >> >> >> >> Monideep K. Dey, PhD >> >> >> >> Deytec, Inc. >> >> HC-64 Box 100-27 >> >> Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 >> >> USA >> >> >> >> Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 >> >> Fax: 1-304-874-4497 >> >> deytec at frontiernet.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au >> [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Olenick >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM >> To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey >> >> >> >> Fire Modelers- >> >> >> >> If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to >> >> provide a database of fire model information including references, >> >> contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A few >> >> years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we >> >> allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the >> >> models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the >> >> last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the >> >> opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While >> >> participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the >> >> initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the >> >> new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. >> >> >> >> Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Stephen Olenick. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. >> >> Senior Engineer >> >> Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. >> >> 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. >> >> Columbia, MD 21045 >> >> 410-884-3266 phone >> >> 410-884-3267 fax >> >> solenick at csefire.com >> >> www.csefire.com >> >> >> >> Iafss mailing list >> >> Iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss >> >> >> >> THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL >> >> ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS >> >> TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, >> >> PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND >> >> ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE >> >> SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP >> >> FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR >> STUDENTS. CONTACT >> >> iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily >> >> those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or >> >> the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS >> Discussion Forum) >> >> or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE >> >> Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Sfpe mailing list > Sfpe at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS Discussion Forum) > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > From eurekaignem at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 07:03:06 2008 From: eurekaignem at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E5..._....?=) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:03:06 -0400 Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey Message-ID: <8736f7100808271403y3b54de1bu503addc5e21eaf6@mail.gmail.com> The question of honesty and integrity is not limited to fire modeling, or to fire technology-science in general. Almost all money-making industries eventually have people willing to slant the truth to their advantage for reputation and money. there is a fire mafia, no question. it burns me up to see people lie, manipulate and hide the truth-via-silence. i have seen it in America, in Europe and in South America. Not pervasive, but distinctively present. The best solution I have is exactly what you proposed, and I have mentioned from time to time over the last 7 years, more peer review. will it happen? Probably not. Reason being...fire risk is usally acceptable. As one consultant put it " my designs probably will not be tested before I am dead..." scot deal excelsior fire engineering funny that it scot deal, fpe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080827/22f0745c/attachment.html From deytec at frontiernet.net Thu Aug 28 22:54:26 2008 From: deytec at frontiernet.net (Dr. Monideep K. Dey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:54:26 -0400 Subject: IAFSS> : Updated Fire Model Survey In-Reply-To: <20080827121744.ew5u0hpv0gw4ss08@webmail.uni-karlsruhe.de> Message-ID: <20080828125430.8FB0CAC6D6@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Dr. Brein: Dr. Solenick Thank you for your comments and suggestions to join the SFPE 1355 and ISO TC92 SC 4 activities in the subject area. Yes, I am familiar with these activities. When I worked at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (USNRC), we did a survey in the mid-90s of initiatives of performance-based fire safety analysis and included a review of the ISO TC92 SC4 activities (see NUREG-1521). When I was at the USNRC I also initiated the use of ASTM 1355 there for fire model validation. I am glad to hear that these efforts are continuing and may lead to new levels of rigor and quality in fire model verification and validation. I am certainly not against the use of fire models or any new safety analysis methods, and have been involved in fire model validation since the mid-90s. However, we must ensure that the fire model results are used in the appropriate manner in fire safety decision making. If the model limitations and true predictive errors are not considered in safety decision making, then faulty safety designs result, safety is decreased(as opposed to having used good engineering judgment), and the public interest is not served. I will contact the ISO and SFPE group to try and contribute to these efforts, but my ability to travel is limited. I have just started my company and funds for travel to these types of activities are limited at this time. Thanks for your comments. I am elated that you and others in the community share my concerns. Monideep K. Dey, PhD Deytec, Inc. HC-64 Box 100-27 Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 USA Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 Fax: 1-304-874-4497 deytec at frontiernet.net -----Original Message----- From: Dieter Brein [mailto:Dieter.Brein at ffb.uka.de] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:18 AM To: solenick at csefire.com; Dr. Monideep K. Dey Cc: colleenwade at branz.co.nz; JKRUPPA at CTICM.COM Subject: Re: : Updated Fire Model Survey Dear Dr Olenick, please find below in quoation marks a letter I sent to Dr Dey on the subject: "Dear Dr Dey, your suggestions are very valuable. Are you aware of the activities going on in ISO TC92 SC4 Fire Safety Engineering ? (Dr Kruppa (F) chairperson) Within TC92 SC4 WG7 (--> ISO 16730 FSE Assessment, ver?fication and validation of calculation methods; final draft attached FYI) we started an activity "Guidance for use of zone models" with Colleen Wade from NZ as Task Group leader. The document under development will also refer to data for validation. The same is needed and may be done under WG8 Data for FSE, and in other WGs of SC4. Much was contributed by NIST so far, esp. by Dr Walter W Jones . If you want to join please address ANSI, and if there are questions left I'll be glad to communicate. Sincerely, Dieter Brein ISO TC92 SC4 WG7 convenor " Your information on work ongoing in SFPE is also very valuable. Whom could I address at SFPE on the issue ? Thank you Sincerely Dieter Brein Zitat von "Dr. Monideep K. Dey" : > From: Stephen M. Olenick [mailto:solenick at csefire.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 AM > To: Dr. Monideep K. Dey > Subject: Re: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey > > You are probably right that that needs to be done. Currently, the SFPE > has a task group that I participate on that follows the ASTM standard > (E1355 I think) on model evaluation. You should consider contacting > SFPE and joining the task group. We put out a report every few years on > a new model, although with the number of models, it is a daunting task. > In terms of the model survey website meshing with your idea, the goal of > the model survey is for the developer to fill out a survey. So your > concern about developers and owners not being sincere about the > limitations may be valid. We do put a topic in the survey on validation > references and allow the developer to fill that out, but there likely > are times where unfavorable ones or ones conducted by outsiders are not > included. Unfortunately, this is a shortcoming of the model survey as > the goal is not for the information on the website to be a compilation > of my thoughts on each model, but instead a compilation of the > developers posted information on their models. > > Take care, > > Stephen. > > Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. > Senior Engineer > Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. > 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. > Columbia, MD 21045 > 410-884-3266 phone > 410-884-3267 fax > solenick at csefire.com > www.csefire.com > > > > Dr. Monideep K. Dey wrote: >> >> Mr. Olenick: >> >> >> >> I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like >> to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, >> i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the >> predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used >> widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety >> analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of >> the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like >> to propose to the fire science community that a task and an >> international standard be developed that would outline the procedure >> for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that >> such a standard mandate _that fire model validation data be developed >> by a third party_, because my observation is that model developers, >> owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true >> limitations and errors of fire models. >> >> >> >> I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an >> effort is established by the fire science community. >> >> >> >> Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to >> discuss my proposal further. >> >> >> >> Monideep K. Dey, PhD >> >> >> >> Deytec, Inc. >> >> HC-64 Box 100-27 >> >> Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 >> >> USA >> >> >> >> Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 >> >> Fax: 1-304-874-4497 >> >> deytec at frontiernet.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au >> [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Olenick >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM >> To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey >> >> >> >> Fire Modelers- >> >> >> >> If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to >> >> provide a database of fire model information including references, >> >> contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A few >> >> years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we >> >> allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the >> >> models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the >> >> last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the >> >> opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While >> >> participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the >> >> initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the >> >> new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. >> >> >> >> Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Stephen Olenick. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. >> >> Senior Engineer >> >> Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. >> >> 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. >> >> Columbia, MD 21045 >> >> 410-884-3266 phone >> >> 410-884-3267 fax >> >> solenick at csefire.com >> >> www.csefire.com >> >> >> >> Iafss mailing list >> >> Iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss >> >> >> >> THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL >> >> ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS >> >> TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, >> >> PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND >> >> ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE >> >> SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP >> >> FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR >> STUDENTS. CONTACT >> >> iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily >> >> those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or >> >> the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS >> Discussion Forum) >> >> or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE >> >> Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. >> >> >> > > Iafss mailing list > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR > STUDENTS. CONTACT > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS > Discussion Forum) > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > -- Dieter Brein, Dipl.-Ing. Leiter der Forschungsstelle f?r Brandschutztechnik an der Universit?t Karlsruhe(TH) Hertzstrasse 16, D-76187 Karlsruhe Tel: +49 721 608 4450 Fax: +49 721 75 54 67 http://www.ffb.uni-karlsruhe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080828/2690ec3b/attachment-0001.html From G.Rein at ed.ac.uk Fri Aug 29 23:45:14 2008 From: G.Rein at ed.ac.uk (Guillermo Rein) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:45:14 +0100 Subject: IAFSS> Two Edinburgh conferences on Fire Engineering Message-ID: <48B7FD6A.7090804@ed.ac.uk> See attached two forthcoming conferences organized by the BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering at the University of Edinburgh, UK. 1. ------ Mathematical Problems in Fire Safety Engineering Workshop http://www.icms.org.uk/workshops/fire 31st October 2008, Edinburgh The main objective of the one-day workshop is to explore some of the common research interests and opportunities between mathematics and engineering in fire safety science with an emphasis on forest and flame spread modelling. The venue will be the International Centre for Mathematical Sciences (the house where James Clerk Maxwell was born) in the heart of Edinburgh's city centre. Attendance is open and free of charge. ---- 2. --- Fire and Building Safety in the Single European Market Does CE Compliance Ensure Fire Safety? http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/FIRESEAT/2008.html 12th November 2008, Edinburgh Regulatory tests, such as the Single Burning Item test, are driven by both technical and political processes. Breakdowns in the process can lead to disasters such as the Kaprun ski train fire, the Mont Blanc tunnel fire and possibly the Buncefield disaster. The venue will be the Royal Society of Edinburgh on George Street in the heart of Edinburgh's city centre. --- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336.