From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Mon Sep 1 11:18:06 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:18:06 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Re: Updated Fire Model Survey References: <20080827121744.ew5u0hpv0gw4ss08@webmail.uni-karlsruhe.de> <20080828125430.8FB0CAC6D6@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <48BBCF6E.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Dr. Monideep K. Dey" 28/08/2008 10:54 pm >>> Dr. Brein: Dr. Solenick Thank you for your comments and suggestions to join the SFPE 1355 and ISO TC92 SC 4 activities in the subject area. Yes, I am familiar with these activities. When I worked at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (USNRC), we did a survey in the mid-90s of initiatives of performance-based fire safety analysis and included a review of the ISO TC92 SC4 activities (see NUREG-1521). When I was at the USNRC I also initiated the use of ASTM 1355 there for fire model validation. I am glad to hear that these efforts are continuing and may lead to new levels of rigor and quality in fire model verification and validation. I am certainly not against the use of fire models or any new safety analysis methods, and have been involved in fire model validation since the mid-90s. However, we must ensure that the fire model results are used in the appropriate manner in fire safety decision making. If the model limitations and true predictive errors are not considered in safety decision making, then faulty safety designs result, safety is decreased(as opposed to having used good engineering judgment), and the public interest is not served. I will contact the ISO and SFPE group to try and contribute to these efforts, but my ability to travel is limited. I have just started my company and funds for travel to these types of activities are limited at this time. Thanks for your comments. I am elated that you and others in the community share my concerns. Monideep K. Dey, PhD Deytec, Inc. HC-64 Box 100-27 Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 USA Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 Fax: 1-304-874-4497 deytec at frontiernet.net -----Original Message----- From: Dieter Brein [mailto:Dieter.Brein at ffb.uka.de] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:18 AM To: solenick at csefire.com; Dr. Monideep K. Dey Cc: colleenwade at branz.co.nz; JKRUPPA at CTICM.COM Subject: Re: : Updated Fire Model Survey Dear Dr Olenick, please find below in quoation marks a letter I sent to Dr Dey on the subject: "Dear Dr Dey, your suggestions are very valuable. Are you aware of the activities going on in ISO TC92 SC4 Fire Safety Engineering ? (Dr Kruppa (F) chairperson) Within TC92 SC4 WG7 (--> ISO 16730 FSE Assessment, ver?fication and validation of calculation methods; final draft attached FYI) we started an activity "Guidance for use of zone models" with Colleen Wade from NZ as Task Group leader. The document under development will also refer to data for validation. The same is needed and may be done under WG8 Data for FSE, and in other WGs of SC4. Much was contributed by NIST so far, esp. by Dr Walter W Jones . If you want to join please address ANSI, and if there are questions left I'll be glad to communicate. Sincerely, Dieter Brein ISO TC92 SC4 WG7 convenor " Your information on work ongoing in SFPE is also very valuable. Whom could I address at SFPE on the issue ? Thank you Sincerely Dieter Brein Zitat von "Dr. Monideep K. Dey" : > From: Stephen M. Olenick [mailto:solenick at csefire.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:45 AM > To: Dr. Monideep K. Dey > Subject: Re: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey > > You are probably right that that needs to be done. Currently, the SFPE > has a task group that I participate on that follows the ASTM standard > (E1355 I think) on model evaluation. You should consider contacting > SFPE and joining the task group. We put out a report every few years on > a new model, although with the number of models, it is a daunting task. > In terms of the model survey website meshing with your idea, the goal of > the model survey is for the developer to fill out a survey. So your > concern about developers and owners not being sincere about the > limitations may be valid. We do put a topic in the survey on validation > references and allow the developer to fill that out, but there likely > are times where unfavorable ones or ones conducted by outsiders are not > included. Unfortunately, this is a shortcoming of the model survey as > the goal is not for the information on the website to be a compilation > of my thoughts on each model, but instead a compilation of the > developers posted information on their models. > > Take care, > > Stephen. > > Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. > Senior Engineer > Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. > 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. > Columbia, MD 21045 > 410-884-3266 phone > 410-884-3267 fax > solenick at csefire.com > www.csefire.com > > > > Dr. Monideep K. Dey wrote: >> >> Mr. Olenick: >> >> >> >> I commend you and CSE in compiling the fire model list. I would like >> to suggest another task in the interest of the fire science community, >> i.e. the collection of fire model validation data, specifically the >> predictive errors of such models. Fire models are starting to be used >> widely as a result of the push for performance-based fire safety >> analysis, but I do not believe that there is a true understanding of >> the predictive capabilities and errors of these models. I would like >> to propose to the fire science community that a task and an >> international standard be developed that would outline the procedure >> for developing fire model validation data. It is very important that >> such a standard mandate _that fire model validation data be developed >> by a third party_, because my observation is that model developers, >> owners, and users are not always sincere about revealing the true >> limitations and errors of fire models. >> >> >> >> I will be glad to participate in the proposed effort, if such an >> effort is established by the fire science community. >> >> >> >> Again thanks for your efforts. Please contact me if you would like to >> discuss my proposal further. >> >> >> >> Monideep K. Dey, PhD >> >> >> >> Deytec, Inc. >> >> HC-64 Box 100-27 >> >> Yellow Spring, West Virginia 26865 >> >> USA >> >> >> >> Phone: 1-304- 874-4360 >> >> Fax: 1-304-874-4497 >> >> deytec at frontiernet.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au >> [mailto:iafss-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Olenick >> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:25 PM >> To: iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey >> >> >> >> Fire Modelers- >> >> >> >> If you recall, back in 2002, www.firemodelsurvey.com was created to >> >> provide a database of fire model information including references, >> >> contact information, and where to obtain the model, among others. A few >> >> years ago, it was decided that the information was getting dated so we >> >> allowed developers the opportunity to update their information on the >> >> models. Additionally, many new models had been identified since the >> >> last update and those developers were also contacted and allowed the >> >> opportunity to submit information on their particular model. While >> >> participation in the update was not as brisk as it was during the >> >> initial venture, we did get many responses. We have posted all of the >> >> new information to www.firemodelsurvey.com. >> >> >> >> Thank you to all of the developers who contributed. Sincerely, >> >> >> >> Stephen Olenick. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Stephen M. Olenick, MSFPE, P.E. >> >> Senior Engineer >> >> Combustion Science & Engineering, Inc. >> >> 8940 Old Annapolis Rd. Suite L. >> >> Columbia, MD 21045 >> >> 410-884-3266 phone >> >> 410-884-3267 fax >> >> solenick at csefire.com >> >> www.csefire.com >> >> >> >> Iafss mailing list >> >> Iafss at newcastle.edu.au >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss >> >> ********************************************************************** >> >> THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL >> >> ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS >> >> TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, >> >> PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND >> >> ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE >> >> SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP >> >> FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR >> STUDENTS. CONTACT >> >> iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. >> >> ********************************************************************** >> >> >> >> ********************************************************************** >> >> Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily >> >> those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or >> >> the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit >> >> http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS >> Discussion Forum) >> >> or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE >> >> Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. >> >> ********************************************************************** >> > > Iafss mailing list > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > ********************************************************************** > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR > STUDENTS. CONTACT > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > ********************************************************************** > > ********************************************************************** > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS > Discussion Forum) > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > ********************************************************************** > -- Dieter Brein, Dipl.-Ing. Leiter der Forschungsstelle f?r Brandschutztechnik an der Universit?t Karlsruhe(TH) Hertzstrasse 16, D-76187 Karlsruhe Tel: +49 721 608 4450 Fax: +49 721 75 54 67 http://www.ffb.uni-karlsruhe.de/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Part.002 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1314 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080901/5c3ef765/attachment.obj From giovanni.manzini at polimi.it Mon Sep 1 19:28:01 2008 From: giovanni.manzini at polimi.it (Giovanni Manzini) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:28:01 +0200 Subject: IAFSS> Updated Fire Model Survey - New Fire Model Message-ID: <0K6I00125FOQPU00@reactive.newcastle.edu.au> Dear Eng. Olenick and all, I want signal to You a new fire model that was developed by CESI Ricerca SpA and others Italian members of ECART developer?s team (Politecnico di Milano, Politecnico di Torino, Universit? di Pisa, ). It is a FVM numerical tool dedicated to Safety analysis of traditional and nuclear type accidental scenarios. Attached file is a brief description of numerical tool. Regards, Giovanni Manzini dr. eng. Giovanni Manzini, Ph.D., P.E. Department of Energy Politecnico di Milano sq. Leonardo da Vinci, 32 20133 Milano (Italy) Ph. +39 (0)2 23993807 Fax +39 (0)2 23993811 e-mail giovanni.manzini at polimi.it (Politecnico di Milano) stgmanzini at libero.it (P.E. office) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080901/9acfa782/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ECART-Fire models survey.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 138668 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080901/9acfa782/attachment-0001.pdf From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Mon Sep 1 21:33:33 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:33:33 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Final announcement: short course "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies - Safety issues" (29.09-03.10.2008, Belfast) References: <4A3DB10B2DB6504AADA0B7639DA763BB01C0AD0C@MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk> Message-ID: <48BC5FAD.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Casey Joan 1/09/2008 7:10 pm >>> <

> Dear Colleagues, Please find below the Final announcement of the short course "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies - Safety issues". The leaflet with a technical programme and registration information is attached for your convenience. Final announcement International Short Course Series "Progress in Hydrogen Safety" Short course: "Hydrogen and fuel cell technologies - Safety issues" 29th September to 3rd October 2008, Belfast This is an exciting new series of industrially oriented short courses organised by the HySAFER centre at the University of Ulster in collaboration with international partners. The first short course will be delivered by experts from Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and the UK. The series of International courses is aimed at those with an interest in safe use of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies and infrastructures. It will also be of interest to those people who are keen to source alternative energy to help their business. Don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions at h2safety at ulster.ac.uk. We look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Joan Joan Casey Business Manager - Hydrogen Safety Hydrogen Safety Engineering and Research Centre (Block 27) University of Ulster Newtownabbey BT37 0QB Northern Ireland, UK T: +44(0)2890366407 F: +44(0)2890368726 E: J.Casey at ulster.ac.uk W: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/ PGC in Hydrogen Safety Engineering: http://campusone.ulster.ac.uk/potential/postgraduate.php?cid=C514PJ Projects websites: HySafe: www.hysafe.net HYPER: www.hyperproject.eu/ HyCourse: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/esshs/hycourse/index.php HySAFEST: see at www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/projects.php?mfm=detail&id=6 Joan Casey Business Manager - Hydrogen Safety Hydrogen Safety Engineering and Research Centre (Block 27) University of Ulster Newtownabbey BT37 0QB Northern Ireland, UK T: +44(0)2890366407 F: +44(0)2890368726 E: J.Casey at ulster.ac.uk W: www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/tacg/ PGC in Hydrogen Safety Engineering: Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. Projects websites: HySafe: Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. HYPER: Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. HyCourse: Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. HySAFEST: see at Error! Hyperlink reference not valid. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: H2 Safety Course 2008 September UU-1 (2).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 347226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080901/60d645de/attachment-0001.pdf From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Wed Sep 3 08:36:15 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 08:36:15 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> CLARIFICATION ON THE LINEAR HAET DETECTOR FOR HELICOPTER HANGER Message-ID: <48BE4C7F.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> Note from the moderators: The attached proprietary information is not intended to endorse or promote the product described. >>> "Haji, Jaber M" 2/09/2008 3:16 pm >>> Gents, Your insights are highly appreciated in the use of Linear Heat Detector at Aircraft/Helicopter Hanger under harsh environment conditions Particularly in wet, damp, or high humidity areas where the sensor is constantly exposed to these aggressive conditions where other types of detectors would be unsuitable. The designer recommended LHD to use for wet environments would be the type PHSC-155/190 EPC in view of the ambient temperature of the hangar. The subject hanger will also be protected by AFFF foam system . Your experience/idea/comments or thoughts of different type are highly appreciated . Jaber Al-Haji Jaber.haji at aramco.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: aircaft hangar install.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 30851 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080903/af51fbad/attachment-0005.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DS-6592PWC.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 369193 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080903/af51fbad/attachment-0006.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Header Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2896 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080903/af51fbad/attachment-0001.obj From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Thu Sep 4 08:22:31 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 08:22:31 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Re: CLARIFICATION ON THE LINEAR HAET DETECTOR FOR HELICOPTER HANGER Message-ID: <48BF9AC7.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Oar, David" 4/09/2008 6:37 am >>> Protect-O-Wire is a pretty good choice for heat detection at the ceiling/roof. I has the advantage of being able to be secured directly to the sprinkler piping and bringing the end of the detector down to a test box so you do not have to get up to the ceiling/roof for testing. Another choice might be to utilize the Fenwal Detect-O-Fire. This can be purchased either as a fixed temperature or rate compensated detector with a wide range of temperatures and choices for different types of environments. The disadvantage is periodic testing (i.e. you have to get to each detector). For under the wing protection and fuel spills, Det-Tronics UV/IR detectors work well. There is a specific application for aircraft hangers that will provide the details for installation. I've used both thermal detectors and UV/IR in combination for aircraft hanger protection. David L. Oar, P.E. PDCF Lead Fire Protection Engineer URS - Washington Division 7800 E. Union Ave, Suite 100 Denver, CO 80237 (303) 843-2102 -----Original Message----- From: sfpe-bounces at newcastle.edu.au [mailto:sfpe-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Bogdan Dlugogorski Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:37 PM To: sfpe at newcastle.edu.au Subject: SFPE> CLARIFICATION ON THE LINEAR HAET DETECTOR FOR HELICOPTER HANGER Note from the moderators: The attached proprietary information is not intended to endorse or promote the product described. >>> "Haji, Jaber M" 2/09/2008 3:16 pm >>> Gents, Your insights are highly appreciated in the use of Linear Heat Detector at Aircraft/Helicopter Hanger under harsh environment conditions Particularly in wet, damp, or high humidity areas where the sensor is constantly exposed to these aggressive conditions where other types of detectors would be unsuitable. The designer recommended LHD to use for wet environments would be the type PHSC-155/190 EPC in view of the ambient temperature of the hangar. The subject hanger will also be protected by AFFF foam system . Your experience/idea/comments or thoughts of different type are highly appreciated . Jaber Al-Haji Jaber.haji at aramco.com From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Fri Sep 5 05:51:42 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:51:42 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Re: CLARIFICATION ON THE LINEAR HEAT DETECTOR FOR HELICOPTERHANGER References: <48BF9AC7.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> <000f01c90e7c$c5d90ec0$f776d079@p4d> Message-ID: <48C0C8EE.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Frank MENDHAM (Home)" 4/09/2008 8:55 pm >>> Colleagues, The 'Fire and Risk' Group that I manage in Brisbane, Australia has considerable experience in Hangar fire detection and suppression over many years, for both commercial and Defence hangars in relation to both fixed wing and helicopter. Whilst linear heat detection may be one solution, other solutions that might be considered are Video Smoke Detection (VSD) or multipoint aspirated smoke detection (MASD). Helicopter protection is particularly suited to 'VSD'. We have successfully employed both of these technologies in hangar design. Previous zone and field models that we have developed indicate that the fires most likely to eventuate from typical maintenance activities in hangars are not significant in terms of the heat that is developed at ceiling height, however are quite significant in relation to the impact that they might have on the fuselage of typical aircraft at ground level. In one case involving Air to Air Refuelling aircraft, 50kW (ie a wastepaper bin size fire) in close proximity to the fuselage was enough to put the aircraft out of service for a considerable time. Fires of less than 100kW have the capability of damaging aircraft such that they are unusable without major repairs due to the surface damage they can cause to the airplanes' fuselage. Fires of such [relatively] small power are unlikely [in our experience] to develop a temperature of more than several degrees at the ceiling of a typical hangar at 100 kW or more. Linear smoke detection has its application, and some very good applications, but I suggest some effort be put into estimating the fire dynamics required to activate it in hangar situations, as the activation of the linear heat detection may require a considerable fire size in larger hangars (ie 12m height or more). Frank M Mendham Associate Director Bassett Fire and Risk - Queensland An AECOM Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bogdan Dlugogorski" To: Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:22 AM Subject: IAFSS> Re: CLARIFICATION ON THE LINEAR HAET DETECTOR FOR HELICOPTERHANGER > >>> "Oar, David" 4/09/2008 6:37 am >>> > > > Protect-O-Wire is a pretty good choice for heat detection at the > ceiling/roof. I has the advantage of being able to be secured directly > to the sprinkler piping and bringing the end of the detector down to a > test box so you do not have to get up to the ceiling/roof for testing. > Another choice might be to utilize the Fenwal Detect-O-Fire. This can > be purchased either as a fixed temperature or rate compensated detector > with a wide range of temperatures and choices for different types of > environments. The disadvantage is periodic testing (i.e. you have to > get to each detector). > > For under the wing protection and fuel spills, Det-Tronics UV/IR > detectors work well. There is a specific application for aircraft > hangers that will provide the details for installation. > > I've used both thermal detectors and UV/IR in combination for aircraft > hanger protection. > > David L. Oar, P.E. > PDCF Lead Fire Protection Engineer > URS - Washington Division > 7800 E. Union Ave, Suite 100 > Denver, CO 80237 > (303) 843-2102 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sfpe-bounces at newcastle.edu.au > [mailto:sfpe-bounces at newcastle.edu.au] On Behalf Of Bogdan Dlugogorski > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:37 PM > To: sfpe at newcastle.edu.au > Subject: SFPE> CLARIFICATION ON THE LINEAR HAET DETECTOR FOR HELICOPTER > HANGER > > Note from the moderators: The attached proprietary information is not > intended to endorse or promote the product described. > >>>> "Haji, Jaber M" 2/09/2008 3:16 pm >>> > Gents, > > Your insights are highly appreciated in the use of Linear Heat Detector > at Aircraft/Helicopter Hanger under harsh environment conditions > Particularly in wet, damp, or high humidity areas where the sensor is > constantly exposed to these aggressive conditions where other types of > detectors would be unsuitable. The designer recommended LHD to use for > wet environments would be the type PHSC-155/190 EPC in view of the > ambient temperature of the hangar. The subject hanger will also be > protected by AFFF foam system . Your experience/idea/comments or > thoughts of different type are highly appreciated . > > Jaber Al-Haji > Jaber.haji at aramco.com > > > > > > > Iafss mailing list > Iafss at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR > STUDENTS. CONTACT > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS > Discussion Forum) > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Fri Sep 5 06:56:59 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:56:59 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Assistant Professor, Fire Protection Engineering, University of Maryland Message-ID: <48C0D83B.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Sharon Hodgson" 5/09/2008 5:37 am >>> Assistant Professor Fire Protection Engineering University of Maryland The Department of Fire Protection Engineering at the University of Maryland offers a challenging opportunity in fire protection engineering education and research. Fire safety embraces many topics, including the behavior of fire and smoke; the interaction of fire with people, structures and the environment; fire hazard and risk analysis; and fire safety design, regulation and investigation. Fire research covers the fundamentals of combustion, spray dynamics, suppression, material science, structural mechanics, and human factors. Applications are invited for a tenure-track position at the Assistant Professor level. The applicant should have a doctorate in a relevant discipline, a proven record in research and teaching, and preferably background in fire protection. The position requires teaching at the undergraduate and graduate levels, and establishing a successful externally funded research program. Candidates with theoretical, experimental, and/or computational experience are encouraged to apply. For complete text of the position announcement, please see: www.fpe.umd.edu Apply online here: https://apra.umd.edu/search.jsp?ID=ENFP000001 * * * * * * * * * * * * Sharon A. Hodgson Director of Administrative Services Department of Fire Protection Engineering A. James Clark School of Engineering University of Maryland 3106 J. M. Patterson Building College Park, MD 20742 301-405-3963 p 301-405-9383 f shodgson at umd.edu www.enfp.umd.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Header Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2474 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080905/a51ce436/attachment.obj From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Sat Sep 6 07:13:29 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:13:29 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> IFE facebook References: <48C02BF8.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> <48C0FCBD.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> <38961EE359314A85A0069C317F25576C@PeterPC> Message-ID: <48C22D99.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Peter Barrett 6/09/2008 12:21 am >>> Dear Colleagues, The IFE has established a presence on facebook. http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=31513936647 Our intention is to use this technology as an innovative conduit into areas that we do not currently reach well; the thousands of young people, student groups, informal engineer societies and fire fighter pages on facebook. At the moment many of them are unaware of who we are and what we can do for them. We are very interested in related disciplines, the architects, draftsmen and engineers that you may know of on facebook would be most valuable. Emergency services are of course at the core of all Fire Engineering, so please invite all those brave men and woman you know who 'put the wet stuff on the red stuff'... A couple of pictures would also be lovely, other suggestions are most welcome. Please join, invite your friends and help us build a critical mass My thanks for your time, and I hope to chat to you in the future. Kind regards, Peter Barrett Institution of Fire Engineers (South Africa) From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Sat Sep 6 07:11:12 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:11:12 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> SUPDET 2009 Call for Papers References: Message-ID: <48C22D10.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Peterson, Eric" 4/09/2008 12:13 am >>> Suppression and Detection Research and Applications - A Technical Working Conference (SUPDET 2009) Feb. 24-27, 2009 Orlando, Florida Call for Papers enclosed Abstracts due October 3, 2008 Eric Peterson Administrator The Fire Protection Research Foundation 617.984.7281 epeterson at nfpa.org "Celebrating 25 years of research in support of the NFPA mission" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Call for Papers - SUPDET2009.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 45991 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080906/74cdb913/attachment-0001.pdf From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Wed Sep 10 05:10:54 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:10:54 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Access to papers in all nine of the Fire Safety Science volumes Message-ID: <48C756DE.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> If you are a member of IAFSS you should have received login information to access all full papers in all nine of the Fire Safety Science volumes. You can view the full text of the papers being presented at the symposium (preprints) as well as the submitted posters. The papers published in the proceedings for the first eight symposiums are also available on the site. You can use the interactive schedule posted at the IAFSS site (http://www.iafss.org/html/karlsruhe/programSched.htm) or go directly to the IAFSS Bibliographic Web Site from the IAFSS books page (http://iafss.org/html/books.htm). If you have not gotten login data, go to the site and use the "contact" button at the bottom of the pages to communicate with the webmaster. Craig Beyler Hughes Associates Fire Science and Engineering Suite 817 3610 Commerce Drive Baltimore Md 21227 410-737-8677 cbeyler at haifire.com www.haifire.com From valdir at uol.com.br Fri Sep 12 03:30:37 2008 From: valdir at uol.com.br (Valdir Pignatta e Silva) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:30:37 -0300 Subject: IAFSS> ribbed slabs in fire Message-ID: Dear members I have a doubt about the equivalent thickness of a ribbed slab for fire resistance. Does anyone know the origin of the criteria presented in International Building Code (721.2.2.1.3)? Why -s- is the distance between axes and not between faces of the ribs? Best regards Valdir Pignatta e Silva Polytechnic School of the University of Sao Paulo - Brazil www.lmc.ep.usp.br/people/valdir From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Wed Sep 17 13:08:43 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:08:43 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> The Fire Protection Research Foundation - September 2008 Message-ID: <48D1015B.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> The Fire Protection Research Foundation 16/09/2008 1:31 am >>> Welcome to the Fire Protection Research Foundation Newsletter September/October 2008 Issue We hope you like the new look and feel of the Foundation's newsletter. If for any reason you have trouble viewing it, please let us know. View this e-mail in a browser: http://e.nfpa.org/a/tBIzn$cAQPK-TB7S4dA$N99-oH-/link1?t=BIzn$cAQPK-TB7S4dA$N99-oH-&email=bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au ------------------------------------------------------------ NFPA One Batterymarch Park Quincy, Massachusetts 02169-7471 This e-mail was sent to bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au. Unsubscribe: http://e.nfpa.org/a/tBIzn$cAQPK-TB7S4dA$N99-oH-/link3?password=AQPK-T$N99-oBIzn$cgt061Yy9$2uh Please do not reply to this e-mail. From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Fri Sep 19 20:09:38 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 20:09:38 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Applicability of ESFR sprinkler systems Message-ID: <48D40702.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Victor Shestopal 19/09/2008 11:39 am >>> Dear colleagues, I refer to a case where there is intention to protect storage of oil-based paints in 10 L metal containers and cartons with an ESFR sprinkler system. The ceiling height is approximately 12 m. There is an apparent discrepancy of recommendations between NFPA 13 and Data Sheets 7-29 of FM Global. NFPA 13 table A.5.6.3 classifies Oil based paints in fiction top cans as class IV commodity. Table 16.3.3.1 for ESFR protection of racked storage without solid shelves of class I through to IV commodities stored over 7.6m in height; nominates the storage of class IV commodities to a max storage height of 10.7m within a max building height of 12.2m under a K14 pendent sprinkler. Tables 10 and 12 of Data Sheets 7-29 limit the ceiling height of a storage of flammable liquids protected by ESFR sprinklers by 9.1 m and 10 m, depends on details of packaging. What recommendation is to be taken as a guidance? Dr Victor Shestopal FIRE MODELLING & COMPUTING phone +61 2 9487 4858 fax +61 2 9487 4868 66 Westbrook Avenue Wahroonga, NSW 2076 Australia email: firecomp at optusnet.com.au -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Header Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2343 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080919/4cd03bae/attachment.obj From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Tue Sep 23 04:01:04 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 04:01:04 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Re: Applicability of ESFR sprinkler systems References: <48D869FF0200003200023FFD@WINDOMPRD00.newcastle.edu.au> <48D86A000200003200024000@WINDOMPRD00.newcastle.edu.au> Message-ID: <48D86A000200003200024000@WINDOMPRD00.newcastle.edu.au> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Tony Ordile Subject: Re: SFPE> Applicability of ESFR sprinkler systems Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:44:55 -0400 Size: 13887 Url: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080923/f06cd841/attachment-0001.mht -------------- next part -------------- The discrepancy is not between NFPA 13 and FM, but between NFPA 13 and NFPA 30, Flammable and Combustible Liquids Code. If the product is a non-miscible flammable or combustible liquid or a water-miscible flammable or combustible liquid with a greater than 50% concentration of flammable or combustible liquids by volume then the sprinkler protection criteria of NFPA 30 should be followed and not the protection criteria contained in NFPA 13. I am not sure where NFPA 13 established their classification that oil-based paints can be a Class IV commodity, but if the product is a flammable or combustible liquid then it would appear that the classification is in conflict with NFPA 30. You will find that the NFPA 30 sprinkler protection criteria is very similar to the protection criteria in FM Data Sheet 7-29 as NFPA 30 also maintains building ceiling height limitations, like FM. Anthony M. Ordile, P.E. LOSS CONTROL ASSOCIATES, INC. 172 Middletown Blvd., Suite B-204 Langhorne, PA 19047 Office: (215) 750-6841 Cell: 267-496-2375 FAX: (215) 750-6845 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bogdan Dlugogorski" To: Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 6:10 AM Subject: SFPE> Applicability of ESFR sprinkler systems >>>> Victor Shestopal 19/09/2008 11:39 am >>> > Dear colleagues, > > I refer to a case where there is intention to protect storage of oil-based paints in 10 L metal containers and cartons with an ESFR sprinkler system. The ceiling height is approximately 12 m. > > There is an apparent discrepancy of recommendations between NFPA 13 and Data Sheets 7-29 of FM Global. > > NFPA 13 table A.5.6.3 classifies Oil based paints in fiction top cans as class IV commodity. Table 16.3.3.1 for ESFR protection of racked storage without solid shelves of class I through to IV commodities stored over 7.6m in height; nominates the storage of class IV commodities to a max storage height of 10.7m within a max building height of 12.2m under a K14 pendent sprinkler. > > Tables 10 and 12 of Data Sheets 7-29 limit the ceiling height of a storage of flammable liquids protected by ESFR sprinklers by 9.1 m and 10 m, depends on details of packaging. > > What recommendation is to be taken as a guidance? > > Dr Victor Shestopal > FIRE MODELLING & COMPUTING > phone +61 2 9487 4858 > fax +61 2 9487 4868 > 66 Westbrook Avenue > Wahroonga, NSW 2076 > Australia > email: firecomp at optusnet.com.au > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Sfpe mailing list > Sfpe at newcastle.edu.au > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe > > THIS DISCUSSION FORUM IS OPERATED BY THE INTERNATIONAL > ASSOCIATION FOR FIRE SAFETY SCIENCE. THE ASSOCIATION HOLDS > TRIENNIAL SYMPOSIA, PUBLISHES THE FIRE SAFETY JOURNAL, > PROVIDES ITS PUBLICATIONS AT A DISCOUNT TO ITS MEMBERS AND > ENGAGES IN OTHER LEARNED ACTIVITIES OF BENEFIT TO THE FIRE > SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING COMMUNITY. THE ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP > FEE IS ₤21 (or equivalent in US$); THE FEE IS ₤11 FOR STUDENTS. CONTACT > iafssmembers at dial.pipex.com FOR MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTION. > > > > Views, opinions and information presented here are not necessarily > those of the International Association for Fire Safety Science and/or > the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. To subscribe visit > http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/iafss (for IAFSS Discussion Forum) > or http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/mailman/listinfo/sfpe (for SFPE > Discussion Forum). At present, both Fora co-share their postings. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080923/f06cd841/attachment-0001.html From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Tue Sep 23 22:44:23 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:44:23 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> International Congress "Smoke Control in Buildings and Tunnels" References: <019801c91cd0$f3f6e8b0$88bd90c1@profab.unican.es> Message-ID: <48D97147.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Pablo Espina Santos 23/09/2008 2:33 am >>> The International Congress "Smoke Control in Buildings and Tunnels" will take place at the University of Cantabria, Santander (Spain), on October 15-17. Attached I send you the Preliminary Programme and the Registration Form. The Final Programme will be announced in the next days. The Students Registration Fee is 100 euros. You can send the registration form to Ms. Josefa Hernando, by fax (+34 942 202276) or by e-mail (hernandoj at msc-sl.es). For information regarding the accommodation, etc., please visit the International Congress website: http://grupos.unican.es/gidai/jtoct08/jtoct08ev.htm If you need additional information please contact Mr. Pablo Espina ( espinap at unican.es). Best regards ======================================================================== = Pablo Espina Industrial Engineer GIDAI - Fire Safety - Research and Technology Transport and Projects Technology and Processes Department UNIVERSITY OF CANTABRIA Ave. Los Castros, s/n 39005 Santander. SPAIN Tel: +34 942 201826 Fax: +34 942 202276 e-mail: espinap @unican.es http://grupos.unican.es/gidai ======================================================================== = -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: Registration form.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 13008 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.newcastle.edu.au/pipermail/iafss/attachments/20080923/8719b950/attachment-0003.pdf From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Tue Sep 30 04:10:36 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:10:36 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Call for Papers reminder - abstracts due Oct. 3 References: Message-ID: <48E1A6BC.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Peterson, Eric" 30/09/2008 1:08 am >>> Call for Papers Suppression and Detection Research and Applications - A Technical Working Conference February 24-27, 2009 International Plaza Resort and Spa, Orlando, FL Co-sponsored by the Society of Fire Protection Engineers The Fire Suppression and Detection Research and Applications - A Technical Working Conference, SUPDET 2009, is scheduled for February 24-27, 2009 in Orlando, Florida, and will address the latest developments in research, technology, and applications for the fire protection community. This is the third year since the Fire Protection Research Foundation (FPRF) and the Halon Options Technical Working Conference (HOTWC) joined forces, and together they continue to build on the merged content and technical expertise from previous years. Papers are sought on new developments in fire suppression and detection with a focus on the following: Suppression * New Agents Technology - gaseous agents, dry chemicals, sprinklers, water mist, foams * Codes, standards and regulatory developments * Recent research (simulation and testing) on suppression systems * Performance in high challenge applications Detection * Emerging Performance Issues for Detection Systems - research on materials, performance criteria * Occupant Notification Research - emergency communication, intelligibility, human response, situational awareness * Special Applications * New Technologies Interested presenters are asked to submit a one page abstract by e-mail no later than October 3, 2008 to epeterson at nfpa.org. Submitted abstracts must include the full title, and name(s), affiliation(s), address(es), telephone number(s), and e-mail address(es) of the author(s), with the presenter identified (underlined). Format your abstract for 8 *" x 11" paper, single-spaced, 12-point Times New Roman (or equivalent) text with 1" text margins, using Microsoft Word 2000 or later. Abstracts will be reviewed by an international program committee. If selected, presenters will be asked to submit an extended abstract, at most 3 pages, for publication in the meeting program or, at the author's option, a full paper no later than January 15, 2009. A special edition of NFPA's peer reviewed journal Fire Technology will publish selected papers from the symposium. Program Committees for SUPDET 2009 Detection Ray Grill, Arup Fire Brian Meacham, Worcester Polytechnic Institute Wayne Moore, Hughes Associates Brian Swanick, Siemens Inc. Suppression Bogdan Dlugogorski, University of Newcastle Ken Isman, National Fire Sprinkler Association Jack Mawhinney, Hughes Associates Paul Rivers, 3M Company Joseph Senecal, Kidde-Fenwal Eric Peterson Administrator The Fire Protection Research Foundation 617.984.7281 epeterson at nfpa.org "Celebrating 25 years of research in support of the NFPA mission" From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Tue Sep 30 04:33:37 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:33:37 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Fire Protection & Safety: Preparing for the Next 25 Years References: Message-ID: <48E1AC21.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> "Peterson, Eric" 27/09/2008 3:47 am >>> A reminder to register by October 1 for early rate The Foundation celebrates its 25th birthday with a look to the issues that will affect fire safety in the next generation. We invite your input on this topic through an open forum and through participation in our fall symposium, to be held on November 17-18 in Washington, D.C. Nationally recognized keynote speakers will challenge industry participants on the emerging demographic, technological, and environmental issues facing us, and industry panels will discuss the impact on our community. Visit www.nfpa.org/foundation to see program and to register for the symposium. Eric Peterson Administrator The Fire Protection Research Foundation 617.984.7281 epeterson at nfpa.org "Celebrating 25 years of research in support of the NFPA mission" From bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au Tue Sep 30 04:35:56 2008 From: bogdan.dlugogorski at newcastle.edu.au (Bogdan Dlugogorski) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:35:56 +1000 Subject: IAFSS> Programme International Congress"Smoke Control in Buildings and Tunnels" References: <010001c91f0a$9e575f70$88bd90c1@profab.unican.es> Message-ID: <48E1ACAC.5D49.0032.0@newcastle.edu.au> >>> Pablo Espina Santos 25/09/2008 10:31 pm >>> As you know, the International Congress "Smoke Control in Buildings and Tunnels" will take place at the University of Cantabria, Santander (Spain), on October 15-17. Attached I send you the Programme and the Registration Form. The Students Registration Fee is 100 euros. You can send the registration form to Ms. Josefa Hernando, by fax (+34 942 202276) or by e-mail (hernandoj at msc-sl.es). For information regarding the accommodation, etc., please visit the International Congress website: http://grupos.unican.es/gidai/jtoct08/jtoct08ev.htm If you need additional information please contact Mr. Pablo Espina ( espinap at unican.es). Best regards ======================================================================== = Pablo Espina Industrial Engineer GIDAI - Fire Safety - Research and Technology Transport and Projects Technology and Processes Department UNIVERSITY OF CANTABRIA Ave. Los Castros, s/n 39005 Santander. SPAIN Tel: +34 942 201826 Fax: +34 942 202276 e-mail: espinap @unican.es http://grupos.unican.es/gidai ======================================================================== = -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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